Multi-Layer Ceramic Capacitors

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Multi-Layer Ceramic Capacitors

Postby k2ors » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:37 pm

Steve QIX mentioned in his talk at Boxboro something about new low-loss ceramic multi-layer capacitors. So far I've browsed the ATC (American Technical Ceramics) web page and found some caps, mostly surface mount.

Has anybody here used any brand multi-layer ceramic caps?

Were they surface mount?

How did you go about ordering them in small quantities?

Thanks!
73 Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ/WD2XSH/23
http://www.w4dex.com/wd2xgj.htm
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Postby kf1z » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:52 pm

I have not (yet ) used these, but plan to replace the doorknobs in my class-e transmitter with them.

Steve told me he is using the 100C series from ATC.

http://www.atceramics.com/products/100c.asp

Example....for a 750pf, 1500 volt, with approximately 1/4" x 1/2" leads,


The part # is ATC100C751KMS1500X


Of course there are other lead styles etc, the data sheet shows how to 'construct' the part number.
This is just the one Steve mentioned to me.

As far as ordering in small quantities, I've been planning to call ATC and ask.... Steve seemed to thing that ATC would sell direct, even in small quantities.... I have yet to verify that.....
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Postby kf1z » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:15 pm

[quote="kf1z"]

Example....for a 750pf, 1500 volt, with approximately 1/4" x 1/2" leads,


The part # is ATC100C751KMS1500X

quote]


Well, sorry, I was wrong on this..... they don't have a 750pf in this style... :oops:

I believe Steve had said he was using 470pf caps....

So, the 751 in the Part# above would be 471 instead......


Sorry for the mistake, but I bet you get the idea......... :idea:
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Postby k2ors » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:07 pm

Tnx KF1Z,
My immediate need is for larger value caps (4.7nF, .023uF, and 2.2uF) - for the voltage range I need (300+ volts rf) I think I'm stuck with the surface mount General Purpose Series from ATC.

Steve mentioned another company in his talk (ATX?) that also produced multi-layer ceramic caps, any ideas on what they offer (or a website I can look at?)

Tnx & 73!
73 Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ/WD2XSH/23
http://www.w4dex.com/wd2xgj.htm
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Postby kf1z » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:59 pm

Oh, ok....

Seems like they should have something.......... but I really have not looked around their site much....

Anyway, the other company is AVX:

http://www.avxcorp.com/prodinfo_catlist.asp?ParentID=1

Worth a look...........

Have fun!

Bruce G
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Postby WA2WVL » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:04 pm

ATC 100E capacitors have 3/8 silver ribbon leads and are about the best you can use. I hope to soon have a spot up on the Forum eliminating ALL external shunt capacitors used in push/pull class E amps.
Floyd
The data sheet is on the ATC website with ratings vs frequency
Last edited by WA2WVL on Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby k2ors » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:21 pm

Thank Bruce & WVL, I have to confess that my motives are not pure, I need the caps for a Class-D longwave transmitter and low pass filter (not class-E AM).

Tnx agn OM's
Warren
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Postby KD3CN » Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:53 am

Bruce,
Just ordered some ATC 100C caps yesterday. You can only buy direct from them, and for the most part the min order is 5 or 6. They obviously don't get a lot of small orders from individuals, but you can buy from them with a credit card no problem. The only other thing is that they don't have many values in stock. Many values under 1000pf had a 5 wk lead time, and the larger ones like the 1500pf's I ordered are 11 wks. They had 470pf caps in stock. Apparently they don't get many orders for the MS devices with leads, and they're made after the order is placed.

Prices: 100C 471J MS1500X $10.17 (the K's are ~$2 cheaper, no stock)
100C 152K MS500X $9.08

73, Karl
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Postby k2ors » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:27 am

[quote="KD3CN"]Bruce,
The only other thing is that they don't have many values in stock. Many values under 1000pf had a 5 wk lead time, and the larger ones like the 1500pf's I ordered are 11 wks. They had 470pf caps in stock. Apparently they don't get many orders for the MS devices with leads, and they're made after the order is placed.

Prices: 100C 471J MS1500X $10.17 (the K's are ~$2 cheaper, no stock)
100C 152K MS500X $9.08

73, Karl[/quote

Karl,

Yes I need some of the larger values and high voltage caps which they don't seem to keep in stock. It looks like a good technology but the lack of available parts in stock may kill the whole deal. I doubt that ATC would want to do a production run for 5 or 6 parts.

Warren
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Postby frank carcia » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:00 am

I just ran a lightning test on a 1 uf MLCC rated for 200v
I hit it with burst WF 4 6.4 us rise 70 us fall. 24 pulses in the burst.

Still measures the right value after 10 bursts at over 1000 volts and almost 200 amps going through it.

I'm impressed....but not sure if I want to go any higher.
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Postby KD3CN » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:40 am

Warren,

Yes the lack of available stock in the MS types(with leads) is an inconvenience. But the 470pf and 1000pf values are in stock, which could do the job in many applications. Based on my phone conversation with them, they sell a lot of these devices and have been making them for some time. It’s just that there are fewer orders for the MS devices. I was talking to the person who sells them on the phone, not an engineer, but they did say that it’s not really a ‘production run’, they are just adding the leads. They were happy to take my min quantity orders.

Based on Steve’s results and the price, my impression is that these multilayers are what we’ll be using in the future, especially as the doorknobs get rarer and more expensive. We’ll see!

73, Karl
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Postby frank carcia » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:47 am

Surface mount parts are fine as long as the end contacts are not stressed.
Heck you could always use copper foil for making leads. We use both surface mount and the ones with DIP style leads.
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Postby KD3CN » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:55 pm

Soldered-on copper foil leads are a great idea Frank. Wish I'd thought of that, may have saved some money. Plus the in-stock values would have been GREATER... Thanks.

73, Karl
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Postby frank carcia » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:48 pm

Karl,
Cool to see your rig come to life. I had the same problem when I increased power. I needed more shunt and less L in the tank. gfz
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Postby KD3CN » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:47 pm

Thanks Frank,

The rig needs a couple 'tweeks', but overall I'm VERY HAPPY with the way it works. I'm truly new at this, and it is my very first homebrewed transmitter. It's a tribute to Steve's design that my 'novice AM rig' rf deck took 2 weeks to build, is full-legal-power, two-band(75 and 160), and came up on the first try. Truly an EZ-E design! Hopefully this is a good demo of the ATC caps, on the drains and padding the loading cap.

It was great to eye-ball all you guys at Hosstraders. I'm planning on many more trips up from 3-land in the future! Thanks very much for the moral support. It's not easy to 'smoke-test' your first transmitter in front of a bunch of people...

73, Karl
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